James O'Brien is Leading Britain's Conversation.
21 September 2016, 16:12
Paul phoned Iain Dale with this cappuccino analogy that summed up brilliantly why Jeremy Corbyn's critics have no faith in his leadership of Labour.
It's almost certain now that Corbyn will defeat Owen Smith in the Labour leadership contest, with the result to be announced on Saturday morning.
We'll bring you full coverage and analysis of the result at the weekend but for now, take a listen above to Paul's explainer of why Corbyn's critics dislike him so much - and what that all has to do with coffee shops.