Shelagh Fogarty is Leading Britain's Conversation.
9 June 2016, 18:07
Jay was making a lot of sensible points about racism. Then he made the claim that black people can't be racist to white people and Iain Dale had to interject.
During a discussion of the Google "three black teenagers" vs "three white teenagers" search story, Jay phoned Iain to say that as a black man, he was used to experiencing discrimination.
He said that Google was just reflecting the racism generally present in society, before claiming "racism and discrimination are different. You can't have black people being racist to white people."
Iain cut right across him: "Yes you can!"
"Racism comes with the weight of a system of power," said Jay. "I can discriminate against you, I can be prejudiced against you, but to be racist is a heavily-burdened statement."
Iain responded: "No, if you discriminate against someone because of the colour of their skin, that is racist.
"I agree with virtually everything you've said in this conversation, apart from that.
"If you're seriously telling me there is no black-on-white racism in our country at all, or no black-on-Asian racism at all, you're deluding yourself."