Clive Bull is Leading Britain's Conversation, including the Legal Hour at 9pm.
11 October 2016, 17:27
Victoria Borwick wants to move the Notting Hill Carnival, pointing to knife crime at the huge annual event. Iain Dale is determined to point out the gaping holes in her logic.
The Conservative MP says that local residents and businesses are sick of the chaos caused by the annual event, from knife crime to people urinating on the doorsteps.
But Iain says she's inflating the crime problem and wonders if the real reason for Borwick's complaints is actually the rich residents who don't like the carnival shutting down the area for a weekend every year.
He had one particularly strong argument up his sleeve: "If the Carnival crime rate was the same as at Glastonbury, there would be 750 arrests, not 454.
"I think you're exaggerating the crime here, to make a point.
"Frankly, where there are a million people gathered, there is always going to be some crime. There is always going to be some violence."
Borwick's response? "But you don't want to say that to the mother who says: 'My child has just been raped'."
"Well ban the whole thing!" replied Iain. "Ban the whole thing! That's the logic of your argument."