Iain Dale is Leading Britain's Conversation.
Nicky Morgan told LBC she is "actively considering" running for Conservative Party leader. But Nick Ferrari was left supremely unconvinced by her plans for immigration.
Yesterday, David Cameron told EU leaders that the reason Britain voted to leave the European Union is the lack of control over immigration.
So Nick asked the Education Secretary a number of times to explain how she is going to reduce immigration and was not impressed by her response.
Ms Morgan said: "I think that obviously it's a big issue of concern."
But Nick responded: "We've got that, respectfully Secretary of State. What is the solution?"
The Education Secretary followed up: "Well, I think the solution is obviously to make sure in terms of negotiations with the EU that we will have to, if we want access to the single market - which I think we have to to help businesses, to provide stability and certainty - that we will have to accept some freedom of movement."
Nick interjected: "What does that mean... some freedom of movement."
Ms Morgan continued: "With respect Nick, I'm not negotiating with you. I'll be negotiating with the EU."
But Nick insisted: "My listeners will be jolly interested to hear what your plans are."
Ms Morgan added: "If we continue to it to only a numbers game, then I think we are not serving the British people well.
"There is a positive case to be made for immigration. We're sitting in a city which is built on people coming here, on contributing their talents, paying their taxes for many hundreds of years.
"It is possible to build a diverse country where we don't see the kind of intolerance we are seeing at the moment.
"It's not talking about numbers. It's about making sure there is proper enforcement of our border controls."
Nick asked again: "Will you limit it to the tens of thousands, like David Cameron said?"
Ms Morgan responded: "I think it's right to have an ambition to bring it down and have control. Saying it's all about numbers is completely missing the point. It's about values, it's about the people who come here.
"I'm not going to give you 'This number is ok'. That's not what people want to hear. What they want is a proper, sensible grown-up debate on this on the impact on our country, the impact on their communities."
But Nick insisted: "No they don't, they want a number."