Labour MPs clash over proposed welfare reforms in heated debate ahead of key vote

The two Labour MPs clashed live on air in a heated debate that provided insight into the conflict within the Labour Party over the government's controversial welfare reforms.

Defending the proposed changes to the benefits system, the Minister for Social Security and Disability said: "It is really important that the cost of PIP should be financially sustainable, because if we don't make the changes to deliver that, then the future of that benefit will be at risk."

He said that recipients of PIP will be "fully supported in the future as they have been in the past" and that current claimants "will not be affected at all", calling the reforms a "strong package to change things for the better."

In response, Ms Creasy, who is MP for Walthamstow, criticised the new eligibility requirement for the daily living component of PIP that will require claimants to score a minimum of 4 points on at least one single "daily living activity" to be eligible.

These activities are tasks like bathing, eating, and dressing. 4 points indicates that the person needs significant assistance to perform a task.

Ms Creasy said: "But it is fair to say, isn't it, Stephen, that future people who might need PIP to be able to get into work and to stay in work, many of my constituents who have that PIP that allows them to cover mobility costs to be able to get into work, they wouldn't be entitled to that support unless they meet your four point criteria."

Sir Timms interjected to say that the government is "not making any changes at all to the mobility component."

Ms Creasy then continued: "No. So not just mobility, but those people for whom PIP helps pay for the support they need to be able to stay in work, if that support is dependent on them only getting four points."

"And on the current system, they don't get four points, but they get cumulatively, say, 12 points. Those people would miss out, in the way that somebody [on the existing system] gets 12 points will be able to retain those rights, wouldn't they?"

Asked if his response to Ms Creasy's question was "yes", the Minister for Social Security and Disability said: "No, I don't think it is."

"What we're saying for new claimants is, there will be a different system, there will be very strong employment support provided with the commitment that we've made."

"Some people who at the moment could claim PIP will not be able to from November next year."

"But there will be other support provided for them."

Ms Creasy later said that she believed "more work needs to be done about the people who are currently entitled to PIP, and that PIP is the difference to them being able to continue in work and not being able to continue in work."

"And future claimants are exactly like that, because those people will come through our doors in November 2026 and we don't have an answer for them."

"You're doing a review, which makes a lot of sense to review these categories, because we've all looked at the categories and think they don't work."

"But that's not going to influence those people from November. And actually, the clock is ticking."

Asked if he expected to win tomorrow's vote, Sir Timms said: "I very much hope we do win the vote because this is a very positive package of reform and everybody agrees reform is needed."

Earlier this afternoon, Work and Pensions Secretary Liz Kendall laid out to Parliament the details of concessions the government has made to the proposed welfare changes as Labour faced a rebellion within the party over the reforms.

She faced persistent questions from Labour MPs over the rollout of the changes as the government works to quell a backbench revolt.

Last week, Prime Minister Keir Starmer was forced to alter his proposed benefits reforms after 126 Labour MPs threatened to oppose the plans in a vote.

The agreement with rebel MPs indicates that the welfare reforms will now save just £2 billion annually, instead of the £5 billion originally projected by 2030.

The original bill proposed changes to eligibility criteria for certain disability and sickness benefits. This included limiting access to the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) and freezing the health-related component of Universal Credit (UC).

Under the revised plan, current PIP recipients and those receiving the health-related UC element will continue to receive their existing support. The planned reductions will now apply only to new claimants.

Ministers hope these concessions will help contain the rebellion ahead of a crucial vote on the bill tomorrow, but many Labour MPs are still thought to have reservations and may vote against the government on Tuesday.

Figures published today by the Department for Work and Pensions suggest 150,000 people may be pushed into poverty by 2030 as a result of the government's welfare cuts.

In March, the government announced the reforms, aimed at cutting welfare spending, which proved hugely unpopular with a large group of Labour MPs and sparked criticism from opposition parties.