Scottish Greens reject Swinney independence plan but hope Polanski can help deliver referendum

Mackay also admitted independence strategy is not up for debate at the party’s conference this weekend and revealed she believes that the new Green leader in England, Zack Polanski, could help to deliver a referendum.

Elected as co-leader of the party along with Ross Greer in August, Mackay also suggested there were still legal routes to delivering a second referendum, despite that being shut down by the Supreme Court three years ago.

In an interview with LBC looking ahead to the Scottish Greens conference this weekend, she was asked about the SNP’s new policy on delivering a second independence referendum, which is to achieve a majority of MSPs at next year’s Holyrood election rather than just relying on a majority of MSPs from pro-independence parties - which could hit the Scottish Greens vote.

She said: “I think John has to put forward a vision for his party. In terms of the SNP having to have a majority it’s certainly not where we would land and that's a very tall order for them.

“Elections are a full contact sport and I'm sure every party will be saying that a vote for them is exactly what everybody needs to solve everything, and John is doing what he thinks is best by his party.

“But I think the best way we build that case for independence is from all the parties where independence is at the heart of it and that's certainly what we'll be saying, that a vote for the Scottish Greens is a vote to push independence forward.

“There are probably people out there who do support independence who might not vote for the SNP and I'm sure John and many others would want to see as many pro-independence MSPs as possible, even if he's not saying that on the campaign trail.”

Asked if there was an independence motion to be debated at the party’s conference this weekend on strategy to secure a second referendum, she said: “No, we don't… our independence strategy is always.. our independence strategy is probably… no, there's nothing this weekend on independence as far as I'm aware.”

Pushed on what the Scottish Greens current strategy is in terms of achieving a mandate for a referendum she added: “I think mandates are difficult because they’re very easily shiftable and very easily counted in different ways depending on which side of the argument that you're on.

“Democracy is not something that we do once. If there is that constant and obvious want from the Scottish people to have a second referendum whether that be through a majority of MSPs, and there's been some very consistent and polling on independence as well... I think there's a mix of factors… there's actually probably a mandate now for a second referendum.

"As always, it's how we get Westminster to acquiesce to that and that is the constant stumbling block.”

Mackay was asked what work her party had done to get round that “stumbling block”.

“I think it's difficult without going through court processes and things to be honest, because there seems to be a real brick wall being put up against any notion of it by successive UK governments now and I don't think it's okay that is being denied to people, so we'll keep looking at ways that we can bring this forward, but I think without the UK government saying ‘fine’ I think this could end up in the courts to try and get that referendum we need.”

When it was pointed out the Scottish Government had taken the issue to the Supreme Court so there was no legal route, and John Swinney appeared to have accepted that, she suggested that the new Green leader in England could put extra pressure on Westminster.

“We've seen from Zack in the last week that he does support both Scottish and Welsh independence, which is hugely welcome and so I think through the Green Party of England and Wales there’s certainly a route to help put some pressure on Westminster beyond just the SNP which I think will hopefully be helpful in pressure coming from a different place.

“I'm sure once Ross and I get our feet under the table a wee bit more that will certainly be a conversation that we could have in the coming months.”

Mackay stressed there would be a lot of policy debate at the conference - even if independence wasn’t on the agenda.

‘We've got a brilliant membership with a great and diverse range of of interests that'll be debated over the weekend, but we want to show the public and the membership what a party under Ross and I is going to be is going to be like - hopeful and outward looking.

“We’ve had the biggest bounce of membership we've had since the last decade which is brilliant and while other parties are losing members we're gaining them at a record rate for us which is fantastic. I think there's definitely a need for left-wing populism to counter some of the things that've been coming out of Reform to show that there is a hopeful, welcome and inclusive Scotland out there to be able to be voted for and that we have the vision and the plan to be able to do that.”