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9 May 2017, 17:14 | Updated: 10 May 2017, 07:01
Michael Gove told Iain Dale that immigration did not fall to tens of thousands while Theresa May was Home Secretary because of the Liberal Democrats.
A caller asked the former education secretary why Theresa May failed on the Conservative pledge to reduce immigration since it was unveiled in 2010. He laid the blame at the door of the Liberal Democrats.
"Without wanting to tell too many tales outside of school, during the 2010-2015 government we were in coalition.
"There were a number of things that Theresa put forward that the Liberal Democrats either objected to or diluted."
The caller pointed out that between 2015 and June 2017, though, the Conservative's were governing alone. Why didn't immigration, especially from the rest of the world, fall to the tens of thousands then? Mr Gove said it was down to the EU.
"Our rules, on all sorts of questions, are trumped by EU law."
Iain has been sceptical of the achievability of the 'tens of thousands' pledge.
"Can you seriously look at me, eye-to-eye, and say I believe by the next election immigration will be in the tens of thousands?" Iain asked
Watch Mr Gove's answer below: