Andrew Castle 4pm - 6pm
Caller Tries And Fails To Convince Matt Stadlen That The EU Is Fascist
13 October 2019, 08:37
Harry in Portsmouth tried to convince LBC presenter Matt Stadlen that the EU is fascist but Matt wasn't won over by him.
Matt Stadlen clarified Harry's position and said: "Your claim is that our foreign policy would have to be entirely aligned with the EU if we stay..."
The caller agreed.
Matt went on: "Your real beef then with the EU is increasing political alignment and integration and an increasingly joint foreign policy and you feel uncomfortable with that, right?"
The caller said: "I fear the sort of fascism that your last caller was spelling out by saying there are dirty rich men who are going to make a packet."
He added: "It's leading to fascism, that's all."
Matt, unconvinced, asked: "You don't think that's going a bit far?"
He continued: "So, just to be absolutely crystal clear, we've got Max in Lewisham who thinks that Brexit is a far-right movement and we've got Harry in Portsmouth who thinks that the EU is fascist."
Harry said: "Yeah, eventually a fascist organisation."
Matt asked: "In what way is it fascist or would be fascist?"
Harry responded: "It may have dressings on top and you may say the Labour saying that we like some of the benefits because they were trying to put that in with the May deal... they were originally talking about when they were trying to get her to talk to the Labour party."
Matt interjected: "Workers rights, yeah."
Harry continued: "One minute, Labour when they're in power say all the benefits are our laws and as soon as they're out of power and the referendum comes along, they're saying all these maternity laws - this, that and the other social laws - they're not down to us at all, Labour, they're all down to the EU. So you must stay in the EU, it's the way they always change their position to suit the situation."
Matt, once again, asked: "But how does that lead us to fascism?"
The caller spoke about the CBI (Confederation of British Industry) and explained that "fascism can come about from the control of democracy through large corporate means".
Matt said: "Fascism, as i understand it, is basically imposing your will through force."
The caller explained that he was thinking of South American dictatorships.
Matt said: "Well, indeed as characterised by dictatorial power - fascism."
The caller said: "But they're run by corporate business, that's how they get into power. The same thing happens there. they don't claim to be undemocratic in Europe but they still exhibit strong lobbying tendencies so that regulations such as the hard hat Mark can be imposed."
He told Matt that he likes the hard hat regulation.
Matt then wanted to pinpoint who Harry actually thought were fascists.
Matt asked whether Harry thought Tusk, Juncker have fascist tendencies.
Harry said: "It's the organisation they promote."
Matt argued: "I'm not sure you can have fascism without fascists."
The caller said people in Germany voted for fascism, people in Italy voted for fascism and they weren't necessarily fascists.
Matt pointed out that Mussolini and Hitler were, so he pushed further.
The pair then began to discuss Verhofstadt and his discussion of empires.
Matt finished the call by saying it was "lovely" to have Harry on - but appeared to remain unconvinced that the EU is fascist.