Shelagh Fogarty is Leading Britain's Conversation.
18 August 2017, 13:24
Maajid clashed with a Muslim caller who supports cutting off people's limbs for theft in certain circumstances.
Malik from Manchester accused Maajid of being too critical about Islam - and even said that he was as damaging to the religion as ISIS.
But Malik seemed to hold some pretty extreme views - including cutting people's limbs off for theft in "ideal" conditions - and this caused a real conflict with Maajid.
“I do say, and will say to you, there are passages in the Koran that we never should apply ever again, ever, full stop, no matter what the conditions are.” Maajid said. “And that's where you and I differ, because you just said on national radio that you think it's OK to cut off someone's limbs if the Sharia conditions are met.”
He went on to point out how uncomfortably close Malik’s views are to those of ISIS.
Malik said that Maajid had got it wrong: “No you don't understand what I'm saying. I am sick and tired of killing and maiming and all that."
Maajid put another passage in the Koran to Malik to try and understand his point better: “What about this one, Malik, while we're on the subject; in the Koran it says 'anyone who commits fornication, lash them a hundred times'. What do you think of that passage?”
Malik stuttered before he replied: “So basically, you don't like anything in Islam.”
At this point Maajid made a strong defence of his belief Islam and a strong condemnation of Malik’s stance.
“No, Malik, you know the difference between you and me? I know and I realise we no longer live fourteen hundred years ago and that those passages came with a spirit, and if we're going to be stupid like the Saudi Wahhabi doctrine or like ISIS or like Al Qaeda, and think that we can stick to literalist, vacuous interpretations of scripture from fourteen hundred years ago, and aspire in some golden age, to bring that when the Sharia conditions are met and are perfect in a future caliphate that we want to aspire to create, that we once again start lashing people and chopping off their limbs for theft and highway robbery, there is very little difference between us and ISIS.
“The only difference comes down to one of definitions; ISIS think they've already got their caliphate, and the only reason people like you disagree with people like ISIS is because it's not your caliphate, it's their caliphate.
“Actually, Malik, that comes down to jealousy that you are not in power and that they are and nothing else.”