Maajid Nawaz is Leading Britain's Conversation
9 March 2017, 11:23
Caller Dan says the country is "punishing people who are trying to better themselves", something James has absolutely no time for.
He's self-employed and says he feels "truly insulted" by the National Insurance hike for the self-employed announced by Chancellor Philip Hammond in the Budget yesterday.
He's going to have to pay an extra £240 a year, taken from the approximately £35,000 he makes annually.
"That's not really the point," he told James, who suggested it wasn't a huge amount.
James's response? "Surely that is the point!"
Dan: "This is a slap in the face for people who work extremely hard, often much more than the conventional 40 hours a week. They take risks...the prime people that this country should be grateful for."
"I disagree with you on that," said James. "I think the prime people this country should be grateful for are the people working in hospitals, the people driving trains and buses, the people who are teaching our children.
"I absolutely respect entrepreneurial spirit, good for you, but you're doing it because you want to be richer than all the people I've described."
James: "Where does this rhetoric come from?
"Do you honestly think that people who spend their lives treating children with cancer are less valuable than you?"
"That's their own choice to do that," replied Dan.
"And it's your choice to be self-employed. And it's the Chancellor's choice to take £240 a year off you. What on earth are you whinging about?"
And a moment later, when Dan said the hikes were to pay for people who failed to "deal with the consequences of their actions", James called him out on it.
"Oh! There we go. So when I said 'who should be taking the money off?', you meant people poorer than you."