Shelagh Fogarty 1pm - 4pm
Brexit Party MEP and Liberal Democrat MEP Get Into EXPLOSIVE Row
20 October 2019, 17:37
Chris Davies, Liberal Democrat MEP for the North West of England, and Lance Forman, Brexit Party MEP for London, got into a fiery exchange over, you guessed it, Brexit.
Both MEPs were phone-in guests on Ian Payne's show.
Davies said: "When people voted by a small majority in favour of leaving the European Union, did they vote for a deal or a no deal? People didn't know what the outcome would be three years later."
Forman replied: "They voted to leave, and they left it in the hands of our politicians to decide how we should leave.
Article 50 was voted for and in Article 50 almost 500 MPs signed up for leaving with a deal or without one if they couldn't agree a decent deal.
And that was it. You know, we had to leave with or without a deal. Everybody signed up for the fact that, you know, there's a possibility that we could leave without a deal. People were happy with that."
They began talking over each other.
Forman asked: "Why did they sign up for that? And why did people vote them back in again afterwards? Because that's what they promised to assure the voters."
They continued talking over each other about the impact of Brexit.
Forman then said: "This is ridiculous. None of us know the future. You know the future is uncertain but in an uncertain world, it must make more sense for us to control our own destiny than have 27 other countries control our destiny.
This is what British people voted for. You're a democrat, I would like to think. If we lose democracy, Britain, Europe, the world becomes a very dangerous place."
Davies said: "Can you remind me exactly why we're leaving the European Union? What do we actually gain?
The EU exists so that the government's can do things which no one country can deal with alone, like the issues on climate change, of course, like the issues of banking regulation because if one bank fails across Europe it can drag us all down."
Ian Payne asked Chris Davies: "Does it actually matter what advantages or why we leave? We voted to leave and that should be that, shouldn't it?"
Davies called that "ridiculous" and Lance Forman asked him if they were the Liberal Democrat party or the "liberal anti-democrat party".
Davies then said: "I find this absolutely amazing. No one was told the country was going to be poorer and weaker. And you're telling me people are allowed to have another consideration?"
He continued: "I ask people, why do you want to leave the European Union? Just how does that make the country better? And I get silence in response. And then eventually they say: 'Oh, well, there's too many regulations.'"
Ian Payne called that "irrelevant".
Forman said: "You know, I'm in business and, yes, we do suffer regulations but that's not my main reason for wanting to leave. My main reason for wanting to leave is that I think Europe is actually heading down a very dangerous road.
We have more extremism across Europe on the right and on the left than we've had an any time since World War II. And I believe that is all driven by the economics of this dysfunctional currency which can only get worse."
Davies interrupted with "oh please" and Forman with "that is my view".
Ian Payne then moved the debate onto talking about the extension. He asked Chris: "You're saying we have this extension merely to negate something awful happening, is that right?"
He said yes and then proceeded to say: "I want to find a way of ensuring that the UK stays in the European Union, I want another referendum."
The pair then got into an explosive debate about the referendum. Forman told him they lost, Davies said they did well in the European Parliament elections and then continued to argue.