Caller hangs up on Maajid Nawaz after being challenged on anti-Semitism
8 December 2019, 17:19
Maajid Nawaz challenged the caller - and the caller ended up hanging up because he didn't have facts to hand.
A caller responded to Maajid Nawaz's monologue on anti-Semitism.
The conversation moved on to Jeremy Corbyn.
The caller said: "I have to say when you look at Corbyn and his track record on things he's been involved with, with his voting records and so forth, now he is a decent human being and I find it really deplorable that people can actually lead blame anything at his door."
Maajid Nawaz replied: "I'm not interested in whether or not he's a personal decent human being. I think that actually is a red herring. Let's discuss whether you think anti-Semitism is a problem in society."
Maajid then asked the caller, Mark, repeatedly if anti-Semitism is a particular problem we're facing in society.
Mark didn't respond at first but eventually said yes.
He then said: "Well, everything is a problem in society but I do think, I'm afraid, that it's the right that have let this out of the bag."
Maajid then pushed him on this.
Maajid described the process as "trying to squeeze water out of a stone."
The caller conceded that anti-Semitism exists but said that to "tie it with the Labour Party is appalling".
He then said that Chris Williamson was right - a candidate who was blocked from standing as a Labour candidate because of anti-Semitism allegations.
Mark explained: "I'm sorry, but I think a lot of this is a failure to be able to criticise Israel for things that they've done, particularly in Palestine and the other parts of the Middle East."
Maajid pressed him on what he meant by Palestine and about who runs the Gaza Strip.
The caller struggled to answer.
Maajid Nawaz continued to challenge him on this.
He then explained who Hamas were to the caller.
Maajid said: "I'm trying to have a conversation, Mark, about your criticising but it appears you don't know what you're talking about.
So, tell me, what are those various things the Israeli government has done in the Middle East that you're upset with?"
The caller said making Jerusalem the capital again.
The caller then hung up and Maajid explained why this was inaccurate.
He said: "What Mark didn't realise there is Jerusalem has always been the capital for Israel. The Knesset is in Jerusalem.
"Israel never made Jerusalem the capital. Israel has always insisted it is the capital. It was Trump recently that moved the US embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.
"From the Israeli position, Jerusalem has always been the capital and that's what's in dispute because the Palestinian Authority, known as the PA, also wants it as their capital.
That's what's known as a land dispute. Anyway, thank you for that."